Toney-Ruiz

Search

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
867
Tokens
Well I dont usaully do write ups for all the big fights, just the ones I really like. This is one of them. The fight is on April 30th, at MSG for the WBA heavyweight title. This will be James "Lights Out" Toney, against John Ruiz. Ruiz is the champion.
James Toney will be in his 75th fight as a pro, and third fight as a heavyweight. He is the former Middleweight, supermiddleweight, and cruiserweight champ of the world. I honestly think he is the best all around fighter I have seen in my young age. I know alot of people love to put the guy down, call him phoney, and other things, but the guy is such a complete fighter. People say that he gets hurt too often, yet he has fought more in the last 2 years than Kotsya Tszyu, who everone thinks is the best thing since sliced bread. Im not taking anything away for Kotsya, but Toney is in the same boat as him. A great fighter, who had some bad luck with injuries. People also say that he gets out of shape and is fat between fights, or even when in the ring, but the guy went 12 real tough rounds with Jirov in 03, and outlasted Holyfield, stopping the old but game legend.
In his last fight, Toney injured his left bicep in the first round. He wasnt able to throw a punch with his left after that, besides flinging a occasional jab that was only meant to distract Booker. I watched that fight extremely close, the announcers, nor did I realize that Toney wasnt using his left arm until about the 8th or 9th round. That was when he was screaming in pain between rounds. When a guy throws nothing but rights, and beats the hell out of a fighter, with one arm, and not many people notice, then how good is Toney??? Seriously? The guy throws nothing but rights, and we dont notice?
Thats a guy i will put my money on any say of the week folks. Now as far as Ruiz, I hate to watch him fight as we all do, and I love listening to that trash Stone in his corner, but the guy has won me money on a few occasions. His style does work on alot of the heavyweights out there, but not this time. Toney will know how to make adjustment after adjustment. Ruiz likes to throw straight punches, and Toney should be able to counter and time him with some great bodyshots on the inside. I cant see too many ways Ruiz wins this one.

Now the line is -180 or so for Toney, and there is still a chance we could see Ruiz hold Toney and tire him out in the fight, which is why I was hoping to see a line of -120 or so, but people arent stupid. Ruiz prob cant stop Toney, and look what happend when he started out against Golota with a more open style... He hit the canvas a few times. But I can see Toney maybe stopping Ruiz late, hurting him with body shots, and taking him out like he did Holyfield. But the likely scenerio is Toney winning a decision, maybe a 116-112 fight. I just think that this is a very good bet, even at the price. But we will see. And by the way, for anybody who read this rant to the end, thanks. haha... good luck
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
867
Tokens
I know its early, but nobody has any good thoughts on this? Ruiz's last fight was actually a damn good one, and I think this will be better than people expect. Plus the line still has some good value
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
163
Tokens
A squeaky wheel gets all the grease. James Toney is one squeaky SOB for sure. Trash talking, biggest mouth in boxing. He is a master boxer, but he is a little chunky and getting long in the tooth. His fight with Jirov was a marvelous

display of skill and toughness at 190 lbs. Ruiz is and has been a heavyweight. He will be in good shape for this fight and motivated, IMHO. This is good value. Ruiz's style of boxing is not crowd pleasing. So what. It's a W that matters. Right now I am on Ruiz.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
1,991
Tokens
a guy can go broke betting aginst ruiz...i think what grates me is in one fight,a guy will lose points for holding....in other fights(all ruiz` fights and omar sheika playing octopus vs jeff lacy comes to mind),basically it`s as if holding is just fine...even if it ruins the flow of a fight....for the fans....for everyone...


and sometimes,it skews the result...as in many ruiz fights...

we have yet to see a ruiz fight in which a ref enforces the rules and controls the bout and ruiz` holding...

he will do it again vs toney....he`s taller....naturally bigger despite the rumors of james and `roids....

if someone were to guarantee that this fight would be officiated honestly with an eye toward watching ruiz` excessive holding,i`d join you....

i think EXCESSIVE holding in fights is b.s......it hurts the sport...it`s against the rules....but it`s used as a tactic...


it is against the rules...."holding or maintaining a clinch,or clinches"...

i think it`s partly because refs...particularly in the states...are horrible...they are in many cases,old....out of shape.....and almost always lazy to a fault....

they seldom put their hands on fighters....

i`ve watched more and more british bouts and the refs are very active...break guys quickly and separate them....they don`t tolerate the crap that u.s. refs do....stateside refs are,for the most part,stealing money in many instances...

if you don`t want to work,stay the hell home.....

that`s why i`m leery,cap....toney is much better than ruiz...but,it`s become accepted for ruiz to bend and break the rules time and again...

he`s got the one-two clinch down to a science...

i think that you have to keep distance vs ruiz..jones laid the blueprint.....but, i`m not sure toney fights that way....

it will be a messy,foul-filled fight,imo...

what are the odds on stoney stone finishing the fight?.....lol
 
Last edited:

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
867
Tokens
I was know. Nady inforced the rules on Ruiz during the Jones fight, and Ruiz was done. If I remember, Nady warned him once, and Ruiz put on a puss on his face, and then sleptwalked through the rest of the fight. I think that Ruiz will try to hold, but Ruiz prob isnt going to hurt Toney or knock him out.
The guys Ruiz has beaten recently, were all bigger heavyweights, and none of them had a body attack like Toney. James will find a way to rip him with some vicious body work, and maybe Ruiz wont wanna get close enough to hold. Wouldnt that be funny?
Toney is such a smart fighter, and we all know his skill level. I think he picked the perfect guy to go after out of the 4 champs. Byrd would be a tough fight for him because of his style, and Vitali with just his size alone, though I think Toney would have a decent shot in that one, and damn do I want to see it. I dont think Ruiz wanted this fight to begin with, and he was forced into it. If he gave up his belt, he would be on the outside looking in, as nobody wants to pay to see the guy fight. Toney will find a way to wear him down
 

New member
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,211
Tokens
Guys this is James Toney we are talking about a fat lazy middleweight nothing more. Suddenly everyone thinks he is Joe Louis because he beats Holyfield and Jirov. Do you guys really believe that Jirov blasts out Ruiz? Toney lost to who Dave Tiberri, Reggie Johnson and the judges gave him the fights. Drake Thadzi beat him up. Please.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
1,991
Tokens
really?..i disagree....how many middleweights could do what toney`s done?....besides jones....certainly not hopkins....i don`t think he could carry the weight and be effective...
the guy isn`t the soft,fleshy and sometimes lazy and out of shape lt heavywt/cruser of a few years ago.....he`s around 220 lbs of muscle...
he`s a very strong guy right now....

how he got there is a big ? in my mind...the guy was never very toned at those lighter weights....

barry bonds has the head the size of a planetoid...it has it`s own solar system....

i expect toney will have another head growing out of his shoulder before to long...if you get my drift.....lol


.and there are very few better defensive fighters anywhere....

to me,he just doesn`t match up well here...i think he`s much more talented than louise....err,ruiz....

it`s just that he`ll attemot to fight inside...because of the height disadvantage..and that`s his style.....and that never seems to work against ruiz........

i do believe that it will be a very rough,physical fight...probably foul-filled....

wouldn`t surprise me if there was some sort of melee afterward...given the mentality of stoney stone....and the volatility of toney.....a volatility that seems to have increased with his muscularity....and the injuries...the achilles tear is very interesting if you know about performance enhancing drugs.......

is there a connection?....i have no proof....just supposition...

it will be a tough fight for me,because i like toney and i think he`s a very talented fighter....a throwback to the days when guys stood in front of one another and still played excellent "d"....sort of hide in plain sight...like hopkins...

this one could get real crazy and nasty...
 

New member
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,211
Tokens
sp as always i respect your opinion.


toney does have the abilty to stand in front of you at an angle and not get hit. my opinion is if he did not land that one shot against michael nunn so many years ago we would not even be talking about toney. at this point i believe his body is starting to break down. plus he still has a pack of hot dogs growing out of the back of his neck due to his weight. i believe that boxing is in a sad state when a fighter like toney can be a favorite in a heavyweight title fight.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
1,991
Tokens
hilo...that nunn win really changed two careers,didn`t it?.....that punch......toney was losing badly,and he got lucky......

an excellent point.....things might be very different if toney hadn`t hit the lottery vs nunn.....
 

New member
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,211
Tokens
the funny thing was i believe the toney nunn fight was on the old monthly tvko pay per view series. toney was nothing more than a tune up showcase fight for nunn and was given the fight after beating merqui sosa in a controversial split decision on espn. nunn was looking ahead to a major fight with leonard hearns etc,
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
867
Tokens
Hilo, I appreciatem you opinoin, but take a look at Toney's record. Has he always looked good? NO. Has he been out of shape? Yes. Is he in good shape right now? Yes. Personally I dont care about his body. He isnt a one punch Ko artist, but he breaks you down. Honestly I think Toney ended Holyfields career. Evander looked very good against Rahman in 02, and looked ok against Byrd in late 02. Then he looked actually like he was gonna overpower Toney for a round or 2, but Toney's counterpunching took over.
I know that people always want to put him down, call him fat, underachiever, but how does a 3 time world champ at 3 different weights become an underachiever? Honestly?
I can remember when I was first getting into boxing in the mid 90's and watching Toney on Tues night fights, and the guy just mesmerized me. his style and skill, seemed so natural. I wanted to see him fight again, and it made me a boxing fan.

Toney is one of the best all around fighters ive ever seen. I know he had a really long bad stretch, but he is in really good shape, and he has the skills to do it. If he wins this I hope the guy gets some respect finally.
 

New member
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,211
Tokens
we will see how it goes but personally i do not think toney will get much respect if he beats ruiz because of the way ruiz is viewed. if he dominates or even just beats ruiz in a tough fight he deserves some respect but i do not think he will get it because people will say what a bum ruiz was. personally i think ruiz is an underated fighter who hits damn hard but the tua fight and his style make it impossible for him to get credit.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
163
Tokens
Well, none of us has a crystal ball, but it appears this fight is being viewed as the James Toney show, as if he did'nt even have to show up. All I can say is I was told, when you are in a card game, don't fall in love with your own hand so much, better to focus on what the other guys may be holding, lest you may overlook something. And one man's opinion, Evander WAS shot when he fought Toney. A hand picked punching bag. And lets not forget Rydell Booker, 22-0. Wow, he MUST be good! Well, go to boxrec. and you can get blinded by all the red hash marks next to the "opponents" he faced. James figures of all the heavies, Ruiz is the biggest slouch. Maybe so. But he is a true heavy. Well, I've had enough of this for now. Caveat emptor.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
867
Tokens
Yea he is a true heavy, but Roy Jones wasnt, and he dominated him. Ruiz doesnt have many skills. He does give full effort, but he will play into Toneys strengths
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
867
Tokens
I dont think Toney's weight will be that much of a factor. The guy isnt gonna be jacked like his last fight, as he has stayed off the weights, which will make him a better fighter. He looked a bit tight and slow against Booker. I still think Toney is gonna win this one.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
1,991
Tokens
you know what,hardcore......i honestly hope you`re right......i`d gladly lose my wager to end ruiz and stoney`s run with a belt....


i just think that that weight will hurt toney late...ruiz came from behind to outwork golota...and imo,golota should be ashamed of himself for letting that fight get away from him...

as much as i dislike ruiz..and that`s substantially.....and think that if lazy american refs actually did their jobs,he would have been d.q.`ed several times in his career,i have to say that the guy is a 100%`er....he gives everything he has everytime out....

albeit throwing himself on the canvas from questionnable low blows vs kirk johnson...... to roughing up old evander....... to holding hasim rahman closer than michael jackson held maccauley culkin.....btw..rahman had a horrible corner in that fight...i think it was overrated floyd mayweather sr giving him ridiculously bad advice throughout the entire fight.... the worst corner work i`ve ever seen in a fight.......

toney will have to work hard in there...because ruiz certainly will...he`ll do whatever it takes....

maybe toney`s condition won`t be a factor....maybe his talent will be enough.....

but,i seriously doubt it....

a slow...plodding....foul filled...clinch laden..on the ropes....mess.....

anyway,i`m certainly looking forward to seeing stoney stone again.....he`s worth the price of admission....

the whole ruiz camp is a boxing abomination....
 

New member
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,211
Tokens
sp

knowing toney personally i think he would be much worse than stoney. a fat nasty angry pillsbury dough boy like toney is far worse for boxing then johnny will ever be.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
1,991
Tokens
hilo....i hear you.....i think it`s going to be a very ugly fight.....maybe incredibly boring.....yet,i`m still anxious to see it...

maybe that say something about me...lol
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,120,550
Messages
13,583,417
Members
100,988
Latest member
watsui2
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com